Deborah McKenzie is Talent Stacked. She's a counselor, coach, academic advisor, and so much more. Deb and I have known each other for almost 15 years. We worked together in career and student services for a small college, and in that time pioneered a lot of work that in hindsight was all about Talent Stacks. Join Deb and I as we reminisce on the past, discuss the finer points of #Carefrontation, and find agreement on just what kinds of hairstyles are most employable for graphic designers- all while trying NOT to get me sued for slander.
[00:00:00] Alright everybody and welcome to another edition of Talent Stacked, the podcast for people who
[00:00:17] are all about growing their skill sets. I'm your host Jeff Weaver and I am here today with one of
[00:00:22] my favorite people in the world. This is so exciting that I get to sit down with Deb.
[00:00:26] Debra McKenzie is my guest today and we're going to be talking about
[00:00:30] sort of the origin of all this idea and concept that came to be because
[00:00:35] you know as I think back on Talent Stacks and what they are and how this idea came to me,
[00:00:41] Deb was there with me at the beginning of all of this. Debra, welcome thank you for being here with
[00:00:45] me. Thank you so much. I'm so honored to be here. I'm so excited to have our conversation today
[00:00:51] because again like you said been there part of this origin and it matches my journey as well.
[00:00:57] I always get excited when we get to catch up which is never often enough but we've
[00:01:01] known each other for gosh it's going on 15 years pretty close to at this point.
[00:01:07] My goodness the time flies but let's talk a little bit about how we know each other because that
[00:01:11] sort of sets the tone and then I want to back into that a little bit as well so you and I started
[00:01:15] working together at Southwest Florida College. This would have been again maybe you know 14-15
[00:01:20] years ago now at this point and you I know right and you were there when I came on board
[00:01:26] so I came on as director of career services for about a year. You had already been in place working
[00:01:31] in essentially student services I believe was the official department so why don't you describe
[00:01:37] a little bit about what you were doing and how you got there? Yeah so as you mentioned I was
[00:01:43] working in student services. I was more so like a student services advisor so it was a holistic
[00:01:47] type of service. It was a combination of providing some academic coaching and support in addition
[00:01:53] to some career coaching and support and more so it was a framework of being able to provide
[00:02:00] resources and referral for students who were experiencing any kind of external factors that
[00:02:06] had any kind of challenge to their academic success. So some specific examples is if one of
[00:02:13] the external factors was financial I would help them with trying to see if getting a job was
[00:02:19] feasible and that was something that could help to manage any kind of financial barriers.
[00:02:23] And so with that you know it did evolve a lot of like just listening to the students doing some
[00:02:27] quick assessments having that knowledge of the various resources within Southwest Florida
[00:02:32] College and then being creative because you know as you say we got there and I know I don't
[00:02:37] know who it's for you but for me I noticed that okay yeah we don't have some things in place.
[00:02:42] I can tell you specifically like child care. I remember going to the local child care providers
[00:02:47] in the area to speak with those directors and try to get an idea of what the cost and the services
[00:02:54] look like so I can create you know just some kind of referral base for child care as well. So yeah
[00:02:59] again providing no supportive services to manage those external factors that created
[00:03:04] challenge for academic success. Yeah we did not have a lot in place like rules or guidelines
[00:03:12] even suggestions. I think one of the things I loved so much about being at the college at
[00:03:16] that time was you know Nikki and Raoul really had this idea of changing the game. They were really
[00:03:21] trying to break the mold of what career college was at the time and be a more I love the word
[00:03:27] holistic it really was it was a whole person approach right we wanted to take care of them
[00:03:32] academically make sure they got through school and we wanted to set them up for success
[00:03:36] afterwards and we were thinking about a lot more than just the education which is where this
[00:03:41] you know as I talked in the the Origins episode this whole talent stack thing originates from is
[00:03:46] the idea of having more than just one set of skills it's parting and piecing all these
[00:03:52] skills together. So yeah you and I were there sort of at the beginning of it which we will
[00:03:57] talk about but I want to hear how you ended up there because like I said you were there before
[00:04:00] I was so I don't actually know a lot of your story that led you to southwest Florida so
[00:04:04] how did you end up at the college and and what was the pitch that got you on board there?
[00:04:09] Oh wow so this is going to be a very interesting story to you so
[00:04:16] I live for a good interesting story. Yes I'm gonna take you back a little bit further
[00:04:21] to get the full understanding I gotta take you back to undergrad so to tell the story of how I
[00:04:26] got into student services career counseling to begin with so I attended undergraduate
[00:04:32] school at Old Dominion University in Norfolk Virginia and as a student there I found myself
[00:04:40] just again having all of these interests and abilities talking about talent stack
[00:04:45] and I was good at them and so I found myself having a challenge with choosing a major.
[00:04:50] So much I changed my major five times and the craziest thing of that experience is that
[00:04:58] my only campus job while being a student was working in a career center I was a peer counselor
[00:05:05] so my job was to refer students to career counseling in addition to helping with their resumes and
[00:05:10] cover letters and so here I am I'm changing my major several times and so my father gave me that
[00:05:16] ultimatum of saying he's not going to support a professional student and you know and so that
[00:05:21] prompted me to go to take a walk of shame to the career counselor and I'm like yeah so um
[00:05:27] I'm on my fourth major change and she was like oh what is your major change now well I went undecided
[00:05:33] because you know I need to really decide and she was like shame on you you're not the PR for us
[00:05:40] and so of course went through the process of career counseling and um it worked because
[00:05:46] not only did I discover what I wanted to do when I graduated which was to work in behavioral health
[00:05:52] working with child and adolescent individuals with disabilities and behavioral issues but I
[00:05:57] also knew that I wanted to practice that for five years and going to career counseling because I love
[00:06:02] the experience that it created for me and I wanted to be a part of creating that experience
[00:06:07] for individuals specifically like myself and probably like you Jeff um where you again are
[00:06:13] there's there's a framework in career counseling called multi-potential meaning that you have a
[00:06:18] lot of interests and you have a lot of capabilities in those interests and honestly
[00:06:23] choosing is bondage or choosing is is a challenge you feel like you want to tap on all those things
[00:06:29] and somewhere intrinsically you know there is a career or an opportunity that does encompass
[00:06:36] all of those interests and abilities you have you just have to find it and so I wanted to create
[00:06:41] that kind of experience for others so um I attended uh University of South Florida five years later
[00:06:47] just right on track um and I got my master's degree in career counseling and um I graduated at
[00:06:56] one of the worst times I graduated right at the start of the 2008 recession and oh my goodness
[00:07:05] I was not prepared um thankfully uh you know part of having that multi-potential factor is
[00:07:12] you do own in your skills of kind of just being aware and observing things and being open and so
[00:07:18] I realized that um probably the best place for me during a recession coming out with a master's
[00:07:24] degree in career counseling is to go work for a regional career source board so I worked for
[00:07:28] a career source Tampa Bay um I worked particularly with um parents and families that were receiving
[00:07:36] cash assistance so temporary temporary assistance for needy families that particular program
[00:07:42] at that time uh legislation went out to basically um you know increasing funds for the Workforce
[00:07:48] Innovation Act and so I was able to you know have good job security um and with that I began
[00:07:56] to realize that when you provide services whether it is career counseling, academic coaching,
[00:08:02] supportive services that delivery can vary based upon the organization that you work for
[00:08:09] so for career source this delivery was more of a case management model and this was a skill set that
[00:08:16] I had to acquire very quickly uh I had a very large caseload um I also had to do case documentation
[00:08:25] very intimate case documentation at that um and then I also had to organize the paperwork and so
[00:08:32] it was a lot that I had to learn to settle to the curve really quickly
[00:08:36] and manage and so for that I was able to you know do that for about a good year and a half and again
[00:08:43] it provided great job security but what I didn't care for was the heavy case management side
[00:08:49] I missed that touch point of the career counseling, the career development and so I decided to go
[00:08:56] back into higher education where I thought it might be safe again um and I was looking to
[00:09:03] go back to USF but they didn't have any positions in the career center available and um so then I had
[00:09:10] to look into academic advising because I did have some experience with that and I will be
[00:09:16] completely transparent and honest I was looking at the money I was looking at the salary um you
[00:09:22] know and so I noticed that your proprietary institutions paid a little bit more than your
[00:09:28] public land grant institutions so I got pulled into the Everest you know Everest I guess I don't want
[00:09:36] to say trap but I want to say temptation um because and being naive because I never worked for one of
[00:09:42] those types of institutions so I'm coming in all just you know excited and with my context of
[00:09:49] working in a public institution uh saying okay I'm gonna basically get back into the same role
[00:09:55] and as I mentioned before your delivery of service varies based upon the organization
[00:10:01] I learned very quickly first of all if I didn't have an understanding of accreditation I had it
[00:10:06] been and realized that all degrees are not creating equal secondly I also realized that
[00:10:14] there is a business model that exists for colleges and universities and that business
[00:10:20] model was very apparent working for Everest I'm being I'm being so politically correct right now
[00:10:26] well it's it's not a big enough podcast where you go and get sued yet Deb so I have no sponsorship
[00:10:33] I have there's nothing for them yet so I don't know if that means this is the best time to
[00:10:37] unload on these guys are the worst but either way there's let it be known yeah absolutely so again
[00:10:45] talk about talents fact I had to learn things like performance metrics very quickly because my
[00:10:52] evaluation of my effectiveness was not from a qualitative standpoint which is what I was used
[00:10:58] to but very quantitative so it was all about retention retention equal how much money was
[00:11:04] being retained within the university and so that made me really again creativity wise I had to
[00:11:10] do this dance of being a servant to the students I was working with while being an agent of the
[00:11:18] university and making sure I met the business outcomes so with that you know there were some
[00:11:25] personal dilemmas that I encountered but at the same time I took it as a challenge because
[00:11:30] at the end of the day and that's when my eyes are open to you universities colleges they are
[00:11:34] businesses you know you know knowledge doesn't pay the bills you know and so it allowed me to develop
[00:11:41] some of those administrative operational skills as I was in that role but it did get to the
[00:11:49] point to where I think at some some point when you start to get in touch with the students
[00:11:53] and you see the lives that are behind the name and the student ID and realizing that there is
[00:12:00] a goal there is a journey that they're trying to create and when you kind of know some other
[00:12:06] inside information conflict starts to arise and so I think at that particular point I wasn't
[00:12:14] I wasn't turned off to proprietary institutions I was just turned off to the model that ever
[00:12:19] has had so that's when I began to open up and see okay well what other proprietary
[00:12:23] institutions that are out there what kind of opportunities they have and that's
[00:12:26] why I discovered Southwest Florida College and they did have that student services advisor
[00:12:31] opportunity and so there was a lot of transferable skills that I can bring and even some creative
[00:12:37] opportunities as well so I did speak with Nikki and we had that conversation about
[00:12:40] that transferable skill set and the the ability to come and create and I wanted to be a part of
[00:12:47] that and so that's what brought me to Southwest Florida College. That's so interesting there's
[00:12:52] so much I'm gonna unpack from this. I have notes like crazy here so first of all I love that there is a
[00:12:59] an actual term for what did you say it was for having lots of interest in being kind of?
[00:13:06] Motipotential. I love that there is a academic term for being labeled gifted with undiagnosed
[00:13:12] ADD. That's great. I'm so glad that we have a word for it because that's I've just had to
[00:13:18] refer to it by what it is but you're absolutely right I mean that that is probably the origin of
[00:13:24] everyone who is in this bucket of being interested in these talent stacks and collecting the ability
[00:13:31] to do lots of weird little things and then putting it all together and I do think your
[00:13:38] journey is interesting in that way because as you point out it's it starts in that place
[00:13:43] very similar to how I was in college right just I need to graduate. At some point I got to get
[00:13:48] out of this place right and I always joke I majored in graduating which ended up being a
[00:13:53] bachelor in political science why because I was willing to go to class that was such a big deal
[00:13:57] at that point that I would just get up and go to those classes but that is the first moment
[00:14:04] of realization for me that was it's not necessarily about having one particular skill set the ability
[00:14:12] to gravitate to lots of little things and then put them together in an interesting way.
[00:14:16] So what was your actual degree I mean did you end up in what was the actual degree you graduated
[00:14:21] with then in your undergrad? So I graduated with a bachelor of science this is an interesting
[00:14:26] term it does is this it's called therapeutic recreation so basically it is it's part of the
[00:14:31] rehabilitative suite as like a call along with OT occupational therapy physical therapy
[00:14:37] so the point of rehabilitation is to rehabilitate individuals that have some kind of disability
[00:14:44] new ability or some kind of modified ability to be able to function your leisure skills
[00:14:50] because the leisure skills do have a positive psychological impact and so that's pretty much
[00:14:56] I was certified as a certified therapeutic recreation specialist and that was and again
[00:15:02] you hear that that was when I said you know I wanted to see there was something that was
[00:15:07] all encompassing of those skills and I brought to table wanting to help people I was very analytical
[00:15:12] detail oriented also creative you know I was also I love working with individuals especially at that
[00:15:18] time it was children and so it was really all encompassing of those things and I think I would
[00:15:24] have never found that had not did career counseling it just would have been totally absent out of
[00:15:30] mine for me so bachelor science and that yeah yeah and it just it I love that because it speaks to
[00:15:37] I think a lot of people who are going to be interested in what you know this podcast is about
[00:15:42] are in in that stage of life or in that same place where it's like how do I pick a degree
[00:15:47] and you've spent so much time in this and we'll talk about particularly you know post southwest
[00:15:50] for what I called you went on to really spend a lot how do I choose from this massive catalog
[00:15:55] and it's like well at the end of the day there's a common thread amongst a pretty much all higher
[00:16:01] ed liberal arts education which is you're learning how to think and you're learning how to problem
[00:16:05] solve and you're learning how to communicate and the major becomes a rapper or a flavor around that
[00:16:10] for me I had enough interest in politics that I could learn the skills in that whether it's
[00:16:16] you know doing that around English or doing that around art or doing that around whatever
[00:16:22] it is you know business whatever you're learning how to think you're learning how to write you're
[00:16:26] learning how to communicate and you're learning how to do it within a certain context and then
[00:16:30] that gets you to the next thing but I love that it was for you putting together the
[00:16:34] why like a little bit of this and I like a little bit of this and I like a little this
[00:16:36] and what can that equal up to um that's that's the very definition of being you know
[00:16:43] talent stacking is taking all these little things that we like to do in and acquire some skill at
[00:16:48] and then turning them into something so for you it started with your degree that's great
[00:16:52] so south was four to college so that's where we started that's where we met you were there when
[00:16:56] I got there and I I do agree I had never worked in the college industry prior to that I had not
[00:17:01] worked in any colleges before or since this is my one and only time inside of academia
[00:17:06] but I do remember that part of the reason I ended up there was because you know when I sat
[00:17:10] down uh with Nikki and Raul who were in charge of the place at the time they were
[00:17:14] very much looking to upend the traditional models and build something different that was a more
[00:17:22] balanced approach I'll call it between the you know the needs and and wants of a business
[00:17:27] profit you know a for-profit college and a traditional college which unfortunately I think
[00:17:32] do represent two ends of the spectrum right a lot of these for-profit colleges that
[00:17:37] they're labeled that way because that's really all they care about they run almost
[00:17:41] entirely as a business and on the opposite end you've got your traditional liberal arts
[00:17:46] institutions that run almost forgetting that there's still a need to make some money at the
[00:17:52] end of the day and keep the lights on I really always appreciated that there was that balance
[00:17:57] between and that it was really about how can we turn the profit motive of keeping students
[00:18:02] enrolled getting them through till graduation making sure that they're gainfully employed
[00:18:06] how can we turn that into a favorable outcome for both sides of the equation
[00:18:10] because there is inherently a benefit to the student to stay enrolled and go through I mean we
[00:18:15] we see it today so much of the student debt loan crisis as students who didn't finish
[00:18:19] they didn't even get the thing that they went all this you know halfway
[00:18:23] near all the way into debt for and at the same time you know you've got to be able to get
[00:18:28] through that and come out the other end with more than just a piece of paper you have to
[00:18:31] come out with some skills and a plan that you can actually translate into the working world
[00:18:36] and that was where you're an eyes time was was spent when we were at Southwest Florida because
[00:18:41] that was the change in career services traditionally career services which I had come into it was a
[00:18:48] it was a job placement agency you know it was effectively a staffing agency
[00:18:52] at these colleges and I had no background in that they they traditionally hired people from
[00:18:57] staffing companies to run those departments I had no background in any of that I had a
[00:19:01] background in the recruiting side I'd been on the corporate recruiting end of the spectrum and
[00:19:05] I remember Nikki and I talking about that background and she's like look you you have
[00:19:10] what we want on the other end you know the employers you know what they're looking for you
[00:19:14] know what they're after you know what matters to them you speak their language what we're
[00:19:18] trying to build is this long-term relationship with them and so my job was getting out there
[00:19:22] and trying to bring in in you know companies and employers who were looking for more than
[00:19:28] just certification because what Nikki realized what Raul realized was everybody could offer
[00:19:34] certification everybody everybody was minting you know medical coders and physical therapists and
[00:19:41] IT A plus plus technicians everybody was minting those degrees if you wanted a chance to really
[00:19:47] differentiate yourself on the front end to bring students in you had to show them that on
[00:19:51] the back end you were more than just another place that they were you know how much does
[00:19:56] it cost me to get that piece of paper that I had because that's that became the competition for most
[00:20:02] of that industry was just we were the fastest and the cheapest to get you the piece of paper you
[00:20:05] needed and and we were taking a very different approach I can only imagine what kind of oddballs
[00:20:12] we looked like to there I was too ignorant to know how weird we were because I had no other
[00:20:17] experience I'm just like okay let's try this I'll do this I see the vision I agree with
[00:20:21] the vision let me give it a shot but I had no concept of how weird that was within the industry
[00:20:28] at the time looking back on it I can appreciate how radical an idea that was going to be
[00:20:34] had it had it been able to you know work itself out unfortunately you know the
[00:20:38] the regs changed and and the gainful employment reg in particular sort of changed the way
[00:20:42] those models had to work but it would have been a very interesting time because we spent
[00:20:47] a lot of time you and I on coaching students through things that had nothing to do with
[00:20:53] traditional job placement or even traditional education I mean we were teaching life skills
[00:20:58] classes together absolutely yeah I mean the thing about it is whether we like it or not our
[00:21:06] career choices they do touch every aspect in our life and vice versa and so one can just jump
[00:21:12] into school and education and jump into a career without thinking about their entire life I
[00:21:16] think what happens is there's some thought about life life starts lifeing right and then you think
[00:21:22] about okay I might need to go get a degree or I might need to you know get a job or I might need
[00:21:27] to shift my job and go into make a pivot into this particular career and so what happens is that
[00:21:34] the holistic approach really takes more what I like to call a whole life approach because
[00:21:40] again we nothing is exempt when we are making those types of decisions I'm going to nerd out
[00:21:45] for a quick moment and talk about complexity and capability as part of the cognitive information
[00:21:50] process model and this was created by Samson and Reardon who are professors and researchers at
[00:21:57] Florida State University and so that is one of the major theories in career development
[00:22:02] that's what I was taught in our program and they talk about how if you can think of an axis
[00:22:08] and on your axis you have an axis of your internal factors so things like you know your mental health
[00:22:15] things like your identity, your self-esteem, your intelligence and the like intrinsic motivation
[00:22:22] and then you have your external factors which is kind of more like your complexity
[00:22:26] so again socioeconomic you know things of that nature and so what happens is that when we talk
[00:22:32] about readiness, readiness is a construct that is a sliding scale based upon the interaction of those
[00:22:40] factors so if your complexity is high I mean you've got a lot of external factors going on
[00:22:46] and your capability is low you don't have a lot of these intrinsic things that are developed your
[00:22:50] readiness is going to be low and so that's just an example of that interaction at interplay
[00:22:55] and so again that's just a reflection again of how life is involved in these decisions
[00:23:01] again a holistic approach is a whole life approach. Oh yeah absolutely because like you said I mean
[00:23:07] these folks were coming to college and they knew they wanted to better themselves they knew
[00:23:13] they wanted to do something different these were you know the colleges like the specializing in
[00:23:17] non-traditional students students who have typically already graduated high school and are now
[00:23:22] coming back later in life to try and either get a degree because they need it for advancement
[00:23:26] because they're ready to change directions because whatever they're doing or whatever
[00:23:32] what was so fascinating to me was it wasn't just the technical knowledge it was all the things
[00:23:37] they didn't realize it was the IT students who didn't realize for example that their credit
[00:23:43] score was going to be a major factor in their employment you know how many of those
[00:23:48] post-military guys did we take in who they had IT skills they needed IT certification
[00:23:54] we could provide that but we were coach I remember sitting with these guys and going
[00:23:58] you realize that the most detrimental thing you can do is rack up a credit score that's going
[00:24:03] to become problematic where you lose your security clearance and they're like what are you
[00:24:08] talking about I'm like your credit score affects your ability to stay security clearance with
[00:24:14] the government and it's not just your IT skills that they need they also need the fact that
[00:24:19] you have security clearance which you do but if you come out of here and start throwing credit
[00:24:25] cards around and buying the car and getting the house and and racking up this debt load you could
[00:24:29] drop your security clearance and no amount of my technical training matters at that point you've
[00:24:34] got to have several things put together and and the amount of people we found that could
[00:24:41] get through the technical training but didn't have the customer service the personality the
[00:24:46] conflict resolution the the you know we call them soft skills but there are still essential skills
[00:24:53] that had never been required before of some of these students that became the differentiator
[00:24:59] between the students we had that were successful and the ones that weren't were the ones who
[00:25:04] took a more complete approach and realized that certification is great but it's that one skill
[00:25:11] having that skill only got me so far and it was the students who had all these other things we were
[00:25:17] teaching you know in in the off times in the in the after hours in between classes those were the
[00:25:24] ones who were actually really you know they could put a sentence together they could communicate
[00:25:29] well they they weren't you know they they could dress the part I mean how many times did
[00:25:34] that become a conversation when we're sending students out going you've got you've got all
[00:25:39] the smarts and yet you walk in the room and they can't take you seriously because you lack a skill
[00:25:44] at the time I didn't think of these as skills right this this is you know this is the hindsight
[00:25:48] looking back going I didn't think of being dressed the part as a skill we just thought of it as
[00:25:53] essential but it's a skill but it was I think uh I think uh when you bring it up I'm
[00:25:59] visualizing it I think I remember the time I think I don't remember I brought them into the
[00:26:05] office or if you were aware then but I'm thinking of these two students individually and
[00:26:10] you know they talking about looking apart they you could tell that they were the creative types
[00:26:15] they but they they had the hair spiked up with the colors going on and everything
[00:26:19] and they were they were having challenges with getting employment and I remember telling you
[00:26:23] about that he was like well they got it said it can't look like they get a job and you know
[00:26:27] it's um my director when I was working at USF um Dr. Jody Conway I will say her name she came
[00:26:34] up with this coin she coined this phrase called care frontation so it's being is speaking truth while
[00:26:40] you're confronting it but you're singing the very caring ways I'm telling you the truth because I
[00:26:43] care about you I care about your success I care about your future and I and I think that you are
[00:26:49] expert in doing that because I know you had to be and I remember that's part of what you had
[00:26:53] to do with those two individuals because I'm just like you know you don't want to give them a
[00:26:58] false understanding of okay false reality like okay yeah you can walk up in there and the
[00:27:03] employer is going to not pay attention to the way you're looking and give you a job that is not the
[00:27:07] case they were talented graphic designers coming out of our graphic design program very talented
[00:27:14] could have been working anywhere couldn't get through the door couldn't get past the interviews
[00:27:18] because they weren't being taken seriously and they're like but but I'm a creative and I'm an
[00:27:23] artist and it shouldn't matter because what matters is the art I'm like no no it's it
[00:27:28] that does matter but it also matters that you present a certain look inside the floor plan
[00:27:35] when people walk into the agency that you you know I empathize with it because especially
[00:27:43] you know the last five years or so as we've all learned to work from home and
[00:27:47] work a bit more casually and whatnot I do empathize with it but at the same time I think
[00:27:51] about what my my current CEO said to me about because we there was a long debate over were we
[00:27:59] going to continue to wear ties in the office or were we going to drop the ties and take a little
[00:28:03] bit more of a Florida casual approach and he was very adamant that we were going to maintain
[00:28:07] wearing ties and he ultimately lost the battle but sometimes I wonder if he should have won
[00:28:11] and one of the reasons is he said to me is like you think I like wearing a tie he's like
[00:28:16] I don't he's like it's a sign of respect to the people I work with has nothing to do with me
[00:28:22] it's about showing you know that courtesy and that's that awareness that that level of EQ
[00:28:30] I think was missing and again talk about a skill that had to be taught to sit there and think
[00:28:35] about it's it's not about your individual expression it's about how you are presenting
[00:28:40] yourself to the people around you are you distracting are you you know are you out
[00:28:44] of line or what have you but again these were the kinds of skills that nobody else was thinking
[00:28:50] about at that time was these you know again I I deem to call them but soft skills but nonetheless
[00:28:56] though those were the kinds of skills that we really sort of were there you know we were
[00:29:01] teaching at a time when I don't think anybody else was even thinking about and it definitely
[00:29:05] made our students more prepared because they had a complete talent stack walking into employers
[00:29:09] they were the first ones probably that had been shown there's more to it than just here's my diploma
[00:29:15] I'm ready to work it's no no no it's let me show you all the ways that it matters which was just
[00:29:21] great I loved that mission I I wish we could have spent more time chasing it because I think
[00:29:27] there was even more to be done also a hashtag carefrontation
[00:29:31] I take it from her it really is let's get that trending hashtag carefrontation
[00:29:41] so a year later I ended up exiting the college to to head to JJ Taylor um yeah you know again
[00:29:48] the changes in regs uh I think you actually left a little before I did I think if I remember correctly
[00:29:54] I did yep and I went to university I went back to university of south Florida because then there
[00:29:58] were opportunities for me yep so so talk to us about that because um I you added a big piece to
[00:30:05] your skill stack both academically but also I think you brought the concept of again skill stacking
[00:30:11] to usf so I'm I'd love to hear more about that part of your journey very exciting time for me
[00:30:16] so interesting position I had I was offered a position as the career counselor over the career
[00:30:22] services and then I was offered a position working for the undergraduate studies department in
[00:30:28] transitional advising um and I took I took the transition advising role because it really
[00:30:34] was a again multi-potential it was a nice blend of my ability to do career counseling student
[00:30:40] support and academic advising and um my director also told me that I would have the opportunity
[00:30:46] to take the work that I did when I was a graduate of student which was creating a centralized
[00:30:52] career advising service for students that were um either changing their majors because
[00:30:57] they were kicked out of their program because they didn't meet great point average requirements or
[00:31:01] just great requirements or they just said you know I don't want a major in this anymore
[00:31:04] and so she was like saying you have a have the opportunity to make this formal completely
[00:31:08] centralized and so I love that challenge and so I took on that role um and so I worked as
[00:31:14] a transitional advisor and it was more so for career advising role and for usf there are
[00:31:20] so many colleges there was over 180 majors but there were some programs that had what was called
[00:31:26] a df grade limit so some students if they got any grade basically that was lower than a c-minus and
[00:31:32] some of were two some were three and grade forgiveness did not count um they were kicked
[00:31:37] out of their majors and so there were a lot of students who were displaced now you take the
[00:31:42] natural organic student who is just still deciding or still exploring and they're
[00:31:46] changing their majors for that reason that's that's we're gonna have that automatically
[00:31:50] but you add this layer on top of that and so this is where I began to see oh okay even though usf is
[00:31:57] you know a public you know credit institution there is this business aspect here because
[00:32:02] like what you were talking about um these students were at risk of reaching excessive credit
[00:32:07] hour limits and so getting them graduated was very important because again these institutions are
[00:32:12] held accountable for you know how many students graduate when do they graduate and because there's
[00:32:17] money is attached to that and so what happened is that it was an easy sell to all of the deans of
[00:32:22] the various colleges to say hey let me create this centralized service um and it's going to
[00:32:28] affect your numbers greatly um and so I was able to build that with my team and all the academic
[00:32:34] advisors because it did take a whole village I had to sell the service to say hey this is
[00:32:39] why I want you to trust to send them to me I have a background in career counseling I have a
[00:32:44] background in academic advising I worked in mental health I worked you know in student support services
[00:32:49] so I have again I'm most happy to have all these skills so anything that they throw at me I'm
[00:32:54] ready for it and that made the selling point so you talk about talent stacked and how that can
[00:32:59] really make you uh have an opportunity where you can create your own space you can create
[00:33:03] your opportunities and so um with the cooperation of all the colleges the university um ecologists
[00:33:08] within the university we were able to create a formal program that provide career advising for
[00:33:13] students and I did have the opportunity to do original research on it so um I did research in
[00:33:20] taking a look at did the program was called major reselection did it affect academic performance
[00:33:26] and as um I was working with a couple of professors in the university we were looking at the data
[00:33:31] we did see a significant um just effect on the great point average of students who did
[00:33:37] receive the major reselection services it actually increased this in the next semester
[00:33:43] and even the following semester post their decision after receiving the major reselection service
[00:33:49] we even saw retention within the major as well and Jeff I can tell you that I mean I'm not
[00:33:55] that fantastic I'm not that great I mean I mean it really strongly disagree but okay
[00:34:00] you're so nice but it honestly came down to again having that space to talk about the fact
[00:34:05] that it is okay that you have all these talents it is okay that you have these skills I mean honestly
[00:34:13] I'm a believer of that question of what do I want to be when I grow up is a continuous question
[00:34:18] because with each new experience you're growing up there's a change that is happening you're
[00:34:24] learning new things your context is changing so you're growing up so that of course what you
[00:34:29] want to be and what you want to do that's going to shift so creating that safe space to have
[00:34:33] that candid and courageous conversation with those students it made all the difference and then similar
[00:34:39] to my experience as an undergrad student showing them the possibilities I had to quickly dispel
[00:34:46] the myth that a career or vocation is linear I had to quickly dispel that I don't know that's kind
[00:34:52] of what you've heard from others Jeff this whole notion from individuals that I get this job
[00:34:57] I'm supposed to work it all my life and this advance of the career ladder and that's
[00:35:01] what I'm supposed to be how uncomfortable how unintuitive how misaligned that thinking is right
[00:35:09] and so I had to quickly dispel that and say well no our careers aren't linear if anything
[00:35:16] it's a mosaic you know because again you are changing um and you know you can make not just
[00:35:23] one plan but you can make you know I'm gonna take another phrase that was coined by our career
[00:35:27] center director Jean Keelan she called them parallel plans so you know the notion of from a
[00:35:34] strengths base and talent based standpoint you don't say backup plan because backup plan
[00:35:40] all automatically infers that okay which your first plan is going to fail that's a negative
[00:35:44] place to operate from so we say parallel plan and so that's kind of what we talked about
[00:35:49] as an outcome in our sessions with major selections let's do some parallel planning
[00:35:54] to give you an example I had students who wanted to be a doctor um and they were in pre-med or
[00:36:00] any of the biology majors again they hit that df rate limit they got kicked out and when they
[00:36:05] kicked them out they didn't only just they couldn't declare the major again they were blocked from
[00:36:09] all the academic departments so you couldn't take any more biology courses you couldn't take
[00:36:13] any more chemistry courses so as you know prerequisite courses for medical school is one
[00:36:18] of the key admission criteria so if I just got kicked out from completing inorganic chemistry one
[00:36:25] and I gotta go all the way up to organic chemistry I can't do it uss anymore so we talked about
[00:36:31] okay why did you want to become a doctor and some cultural things are part of that
[00:36:37] so a lot of my students from the asian background you know there is this concept of you have
[00:36:42] to honor family and decision-making and so part of their decision-making becoming a doctor
[00:36:46] is to honor what their family want them to do and again and I completely understood that but
[00:36:52] then when you talk to them to find out who there was a person there was a misalignment
[00:36:55] while they wanted to be a doctor they really wanted to help people and some wanted to be
[00:37:00] lawyers for example or some wanted to actually work in public health and be a health educator
[00:37:05] and so again from that parallel plan aspect we talked about okay so you've got all these
[00:37:11] credits approved you can't go and just declare a different major you can't go into college business
[00:37:17] that's going to set you way back so let's talk about what you have here how we can make this pivot
[00:37:22] but we can also speak to the things that you are interested in doing and then get you a job as well
[00:37:29] and so again when we looked at our data and again from having those courageous conversations
[00:37:34] create that same space those were the things that really made the difference part of my intake
[00:37:40] form was asking what were your challenges and your barriers leading up to this appointment
[00:37:45] and it wasn't I couldn't pass my class or I wasn't smart enough it wasn't you know I
[00:37:53] didn't know about this information it was I wasn't interested or first time away from home
[00:38:00] or you know more of your psychosocial emotional factors so again talk about that EQ component
[00:38:06] those are the things that were really prevalent and so again having that environment where we can get
[00:38:11] to talk about you know your interests your skill sets it's okay to have these talents you can
[00:38:17] package this into something careers are not linear you know that really freed a lot of students
[00:38:23] and so I mean that was an awesome time at usf to really be a part of that experience to tell
[00:38:31] that story with data and to be able to have to make that difference and I to this day believe
[00:38:38] even when I do my coaching with families and kids who want to send their kids to college
[00:38:44] one of the things I do emphasize is you have to listen to the individual and to hear those things
[00:38:54] and again our workforce model is not the same as it was for our parents and our grandparents
[00:39:00] I would submit that this current workforce model is more inviting and encouraging of having this
[00:39:05] multi potential this multi ability that the talent stack because of the fact that it
[00:39:11] is a ever-changing world but when you put things like automation, artificial intelligence,
[00:39:16] virtual environments and things of that nature it does command having all of those multiple
[00:39:21] abilities and it's okay to develop those in your education and career. Oh more than okay
[00:39:26] it's becoming essential it's become it's becoming essential I the reason I'm so interested in this
[00:39:33] topic is because I think as you know we look forward it's the people that have these types of
[00:39:41] talent stacks that are going to be the most successful because you have to have a look
[00:39:45] you have to have a lot of functional knowledge about a lot of weird things in any kind of job
[00:39:51] nowadays right I mean it so so talking about the usf time and I do want to touch on a
[00:39:56] couple things there because there's some really fascinating stuff first of all
[00:39:59] the emotional component of that kind of major change not just the logistical component you know
[00:40:06] like you said students who change majors because they decide I want to be in this instead of that
[00:40:11] there's a lot of logistics that goes into getting that right and not losing too much time
[00:40:17] but to essentially fail out of the program that you were set on not only are you having
[00:40:24] to deal with the logistics of a major change you're dealing with the emotional fallout you're
[00:40:30] dealing with the losing your social group because in those types of high performance majors oftentimes
[00:40:36] I mean you're in the study groups with them you see them in every class you're basically a cohort
[00:40:41] so you've lost your social cohort you've lost your academic cohort you've lost your quote dream
[00:40:46] and you've got to figure out what to do with that and I love that your team's approach
[00:40:51] was to say well let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater and say that this is gone it's
[00:40:58] it's still skill it's still talent that you've acquired what can we stack on it instead to end up
[00:41:05] somewhere that is still useful and and still recognize the value of these pieces but again
[00:41:10] how did you get there you had a particular skill set that included both career counseling
[00:41:15] academic counseling and like personal counseling and it takes all three because if you can't recognize
[00:41:21] all those components then you're missing something and I think that's why what you were doing was
[00:41:27] both so interestingly different than what was happening before and why it worked
[00:41:33] because the traditional academic counselor thinks about the logistics of curriculum
[00:41:37] they don't take the time to stop and go let's recognize the emotional fallout that's
[00:41:42] happening here and a you know a personal counselor may not understand the logistics or
[00:41:48] understand the career market to go what are still marketable in these skills that you have so
[00:41:53] what a great example of how talent stacks both created the job that you ended up
[00:41:58] with and I believe ended up becoming the the basis of your doctoral work if I remember correctly
[00:42:03] yes absolutely yeah that that research was published um in the national academic advising
[00:42:07] journal um you know and that I was so proud of that because that was that was a labor of love but
[00:42:12] I also wanted it to be a model for other universities and colleges to think about because I mean you're
[00:42:19] correct Jeff there is a psychosocial emotional component as you were talking one of the things
[00:42:24] I had to make the students aware especially if they fail their major was the whole process
[00:42:29] of grief some students were in various stages of grief and you know this whole concept of
[00:42:35] grieving the loss of an academic major because like I said it's a holistic approach whole life
[00:42:40] approach that major is attached to your identity it's attached to your social construct and then
[00:42:46] from a parental standpoint it is also attached to you know the support you get at home with your
[00:42:50] family and so some of them again were in the stages of denial bargaining um I could tell you
[00:42:57] the students that were kicked out of engineering majors because again failing out oh my goodness
[00:43:01] the bargaining would go in you know because what can I do who can I talk to what extra credit is there
[00:43:07] absolutely I will I will scrub the campus stadium bathrooms if I can get a retake on this I mean
[00:43:14] absolutely absolutely yeah and and and I extend that to you know not just getting just failing
[00:43:20] out of a major when you find yourselves if you are in a job or in a career and whatever the
[00:43:26] factors that create that you find yourself either burnt out or no longer interested or finding yourself
[00:43:32] at some kind of loss and you do have to change your career employment whether you get laid off
[00:43:37] or you're not getting recognized at work and you're not getting promoted in the way you feel
[00:43:41] you should get promoted and you do make that shift there is a loss that is there and so there
[00:43:46] was some form of grief that appears and you know part of what I do with career counseling
[00:43:52] is my thing is to tell people to say hello to that it's okay you have to acknowledge that
[00:43:57] because that is going to allow for you to move past it as you go on because if you don't you carry
[00:44:03] things into your new opportunity like insecurity you question your confidence you question your
[00:44:09] abilities and and and that you know that doesn't allow for you to maximize all the talents
[00:44:14] that you have stacked from those previous and that current opportunity absolutely absolutely
[00:44:20] and that's that again becomes the foundation of this idea is being able to take that step back
[00:44:27] and you were there guiding them through this to say let's look at everything you've got here and
[00:44:31] realize that these blocks that you've built don't go away just because all of a sudden the blueprint
[00:44:38] isn't going the way it was supposed to there's still good material here what can we do to
[00:44:43] change the blueprint and come up with something else you know if you think about
[00:44:46] building a house it's like well okay I get it you can't build the house that was on the page
[00:44:51] anymore because you know they've said no to your particular plan but we're still sitting here surrounded
[00:44:58] by concrete and wood and two by fours and and we can build something else it may not look like
[00:45:03] what you thought it was going to look like but none of this has gone bad and that's again that's
[00:45:08] the foundation that's the essence of this talent stack idea is acquiring all these pieces
[00:45:14] I I I alluded to it's it's like being a skill hoarder right you know and it's we've got them and we
[00:45:20] we swear we're gonna do something with them someday they're all sitting there in a room and we're
[00:45:23] looking at them but the the truth is you can take those and go okay I'm gonna repurpose them I I love
[00:45:29] what you the analogy you called it a mosaic right and and it is I think such a great analogy
[00:45:35] for this because oftentimes it's these weird little bits that don't seem to fit in until
[00:45:40] you find the right place for all of them glue them together and turn them into something
[00:45:45] and and that's what all these little skills become over time is they are weird little parts of the
[00:45:52] mosaic that eventually can be shifted and changed and and it's so absolutely true that our careers
[00:46:00] today don't look like what our parents did and no one's career is gonna leave that model that for
[00:46:05] some reason and we were saying this back when we were doing the southwest Florida College stuff I
[00:46:09] remember teaching this to these kids in classes going if you think you're gonna show up for 25 years
[00:46:15] straight and get the gold watch at the end you're crazy it's just not how it's gonna work anymore
[00:46:19] you're gonna change jobs multiple times you're gonna change careers a couple of times but everything
[00:46:25] you learn along the way can be moving you towards the next thing they are not independent
[00:46:31] roads by which you have to go down one and if you go down the wrong one you have to back
[00:46:35] up to get to the next one you can change lanes at all kinds of points and still be on the same road
[00:46:41] and you can you know move in directions that are seemingly unrelated but there's there's a little
[00:46:47] germ of an idea in there and maybe a skill that you have that wasn't important but you kind of
[00:46:52] have it turns out to become more important later when you restack the system and and come
[00:46:57] up with something new which is all I think so essential to how we look ahead to work
[00:47:03] today and in the future I never thought that when I was doing radio in college that my radio
[00:47:08] skills were going to be essential to me down the future because I didn't do the radio path here I am
[00:47:13] you know podcasting has become a huge part of my career and all of that is built on the radio
[00:47:18] skills how to speak into the microphone correctly how to put the headset on how to do the audio
[00:47:22] editing all of that comes from a place of a skill that I picked up that I never thought
[00:47:27] I'd have a use for again has turned out to be an essential part of my current stack because
[00:47:32] it's useful in that way so I think that's the fun for me in all of this and definitely a big part
[00:47:39] of how careers and career planning into the future goes and a big part of how as you know
[00:47:43] students are going into college now with the cost and and what it takes to get through and looking
[00:47:49] at this and going there are so many people who graduated from college who are doing
[00:47:53] nothing like what their degree says it is which in a way it's fine I mean who am I
[00:47:59] I'm not doing political science other than everybody everywhere is politics all the time
[00:48:05] I think going into college today if I were to go back and look at it differently I would definitely
[00:48:10] take a lot more electives outside of my major I would definitely spend a lot more time in
[00:48:15] extracurriculars and and use that time to build even more of these skills that I have had
[00:48:22] to sort of dip in and out of but I think that's the beauty of what's coming up ahead so
[00:48:27] I want to shift now and talk about what you're doing today because I'm excited to hear about
[00:48:32] the the consulting work that you're doing now and how this thread continues to pull all the way
[00:48:37] through yeah so I would say that this honestly this current work that I'm doing is a beautiful
[00:48:43] culmination of just everything I've just shared so I currently work as a certified career counselor
[00:48:51] for government contractor who works with the department defense and I provide career
[00:48:54] counseling to military spouses and this is some very interesting work because as I've shared with you
[00:49:00] my work has traditionally been with students families and so the military population I never
[00:49:07] started in the military but I have family members who have is is a very unique population so
[00:49:15] it's interesting as if I were to describe the combination of the experiences that I have
[00:49:21] and the work that I do and what I feel like I specialize in in providing career counseling
[00:49:27] support services and advising it would be that I specialize in career education transitions
[00:49:33] because of the fact that I've worked with such a transient type of model and you know just those
[00:49:39] various situations and so I thought I covered it all until I began working with the military
[00:49:43] population with military spouses they present a unique set of challenges into the workforce
[00:49:50] with the military lifestyle comes a lot of your military moves because their spouses are getting
[00:49:55] assigned and so what happens is that they could be in a job today and not be in a job tomorrow
[00:50:02] and then of course finding opportunities is a bit challenging as a result of that
[00:50:06] you Jeff you've worked in HR you are very in astute to HR what does it look like when
[00:50:12] someone presents to you a resume that has employment gaps what's the first thing that
[00:50:17] comes to your mind yeah and uh and you know it it used to be a challenge and now this has gotten
[00:50:25] so much worse because the reality is so many of these are being AI scanned as opposed to
[00:50:31] looked at by a human with a brain who can actually contextualize stuff I mean it
[00:50:36] for me it was always a question right that gaps to me were always like a point of
[00:50:41] interest it almost made me stop and go hmm I wonder what that's about why why it's it's
[00:50:46] nothing else it's a question at worst it can look like job hopping it can look like instability and it
[00:50:53] can look like you know unemployability to someone and that's what I become increasingly terrified
[00:50:59] with these you know like I say it's so many of these now are being scanned by a by an algorithm
[00:51:05] that sits there and goes oh there's too many gaps in this resume let's it's a challenge
[00:51:10] yes the applicant tracking software yeah and so I'm glad you said that because you know that is
[00:51:18] you know a a deep concern for military spouses so you get a lot of military spouses who are very
[00:51:24] talented highly educated highly skilled and if anything because of the type of environment
[00:51:30] and lifestyle they have there I would call them great experts at change and change management
[00:51:35] and talk about talent stack oh my goodness like Jeff like this is like I would say part of one of
[00:51:41] your poster you know images or your your your avatars if you will because um when I when I
[00:51:47] have my first session with them I do ask them uh first of all I ask them how long have they been
[00:51:51] a military spouse and what is military life how has it been like for them but then I
[00:51:55] ask them about their education and their experience and to hear the experience and
[00:52:00] how they've gathered so many skills um you know some of them because they're in that situation
[00:52:07] they will if they can't get a job and what they want to get it in they'll get a job or whatever
[00:52:10] they can so you see a lot of military spouses doing a lot of your gig economy work you see those
[00:52:15] doing your service work like your service servers and things of that nature and so they bring
[00:52:20] that to the table so another concern they have is you know I don't have direct experience there
[00:52:27] I want to basically go for this particular role here I want to go for HR position um I did some HR
[00:52:33] work back when we were assigned you know in Alabama but we've moved three locations since then and
[00:52:38] because we move you know three months or six months out I wasn't able to get a job because
[00:52:43] employers thought that I was a risk and so but I really want to go on to HR but I've got this
[00:52:48] experience here how do I present my resume or how do I explain to employers during an interview
[00:52:54] or like you said with the application tracking software how can I get selected and so this is a
[00:53:00] very very interesting population that I'm working with um I feel that it has commanded my skillset
[00:53:08] in a whole other level which I love um I do this in a virtual environment so a lot of my spouses
[00:53:15] I am providing services through a telephone uh environment um and so what happens is from my
[00:53:21] counseling skillset I have to rely a lot on my active listening um which is you know it's a different
[00:53:28] experience when you're looking someone face to face versus you're hearing on the phone face to
[00:53:33] face I can see your body language I can see your affect you know and I can see what's going on in
[00:53:37] the background with you on the phone I can't quite see that so I have to not only really um
[00:53:45] you know forge my active listening skills but I have to pay attention to the tone of the
[00:53:48] voice I have to pay attention to what's going on in the background I got to pay attention to what's
[00:53:52] going on in my background and try to again reproduce what I would have an in-person face-to-face
[00:53:58] environment and so you know that's something that has really built I mean really advanced my skillset
[00:54:03] but then also with the career counseling piece because as we talk about from that holistic
[00:54:08] standpoint um you know with military spouses they are trying to not only identify with
[00:54:17] what kind of role they want to do but maintain it because of the transient nature um and so that's
[00:54:22] a population I would say Jeff where talent stack is such an alignment for them and then them having
[00:54:29] that understanding that this workforce actually will embrace them that they are essential so a
[00:54:34] lot of our conversations steer upon the fact that you know what your situation it creates
[00:54:38] puts create a awesome advantage for you so let's talk about how we can leverage these opportunities
[00:54:44] and if you do have any gaps let's talk about some things you did in the meantime because I get some
[00:54:48] spouses who actually will do things on the base they will um add a mentor other new military
[00:54:53] spouses and their families um they will be a part of some nonprofit work and things of that
[00:54:58] nature and so we talk about how that feels in the gaps but again how the with the
[00:55:02] talents that they bring from that how you stack it upon the the professional work that you
[00:55:07] have and how you can contribute that um going back to our southwest for the college time one
[00:55:13] of the things that I love that you did with students is you set them in the mindset and
[00:55:17] a framework that when you apply for a job you have to think about what you are bringing to the
[00:55:23] employer what you are bringing to the company and selling that as such don't take the self-sensitive
[00:55:29] approach like uh I just want a job painting you know it's like okay they're going to pay you but
[00:55:35] there's an exchange that's happening and so you have to communicate that so we talk a lot about
[00:55:40] that framework that you know as a military spouse this is what you bring to the table and this
[00:55:46] actually makes you very competitive um and so and again you are an expert of change you are an expert
[00:55:52] of being highly adaptable to situations and flexible because you have to do that as part of
[00:55:57] life again going back to that holistic approach as a whole life approach as well so I'm really
[00:56:03] enjoying this experience um working with military spouses again I I serve them in current development
[00:56:10] education and training uh transition um and of course you know with any of their you know
[00:56:17] external things um if they are dealing with any of the mental health effects I mean I'm excuse me
[00:56:22] of factors that come along with being in a military lifestyle especially dealing with their
[00:56:27] spouses and what they deal with we talk about that as well and I do referral for various
[00:56:32] resources um that are provided by the government as well so again very fascinating work I'm
[00:56:37] happy that I found it um and I got into this work Jeff during the pandemic the COVID pandemic so um
[00:56:46] that was a pleasant surprise um just you know personally I had a lot of health issues that put
[00:56:53] me at high risk for COVID being asthmatic having a lower immune system um and so I noticed when I
[00:56:58] was at USF I got sick a whole lot and it didn't hit me until after getting out that environment
[00:57:03] working with physicians that all of that being sick it actually brought my immune system down so
[00:57:08] I was like well yeah I can't do this anymore I'm hearing all this stuff that's going on in news
[00:57:12] I'm like okay yeah we need to make a pivot let's move to something else and found this opportunity
[00:57:18] again as a remote career counselor working at military spouses and so I absolutely love it
[00:57:23] like I said it's the culmination of everything it's interesting when you think that you have um
[00:57:30] you know have developed a very strong context and knowledge and awareness of the type of work
[00:57:36] that you do there's always an experience out there that really just gives you a whole
[00:57:41] another face a whole another perspective to it and that's again why I say careers are not linear
[00:57:47] they're not they are so much in a way again a mosaic they're you know they're so um you
[00:57:54] know dynamic um and in how they form and develop so like I said I always say the question of I'm
[00:58:00] always asking myself when do I want to be when I grow up you know because that change always
[00:58:05] happens as well so yeah that it's it's fun it's fun time right now I love it and and what a you
[00:58:14] know what a great great example again of talent stacking I mean military spouses you you couldn't
[00:58:22] be more right military spouses are the epitome of talent stacking but it's it's if there's one thing I
[00:58:27] hope to to do with this conversation with this podcast it's to get people to start thinking about
[00:58:33] the things they have as talents to be stacked because I think we oftentimes we take for granted
[00:58:39] that the experiences we have the jobs that we've done if they're not related to the thing
[00:58:45] that somehow they're just irrelevant and that's not the case it's when you look at any job
[00:58:50] any career there are relevant skills that are transferable right and even if it's just
[00:58:56] just in being a military spouse as you said their ability to cope and deal with change management
[00:59:02] their ability to adapt to culture quickly I mean they're constantly being dropped in places that
[00:59:09] they may not even speak the language let alone have a social network and a group of friends so
[00:59:14] their ability to adapt to others connect with others integrate themselves quickly huge skill
[00:59:20] huge huge skill and they don't think of it often as a skill they just think of it is well
[00:59:25] it's just something I have to do to survive and that may be true but if you stop and step back
[00:59:30] from it and go start thinking of everything in your life like that as a skill start thinking
[00:59:35] about the fact that you run and manage this household by yourself with all these parts and
[00:59:40] pieces that is skills there are and once you start thinking of them as skills now you realize
[00:59:45] that those skills are transferable and now you start to really sit there and round out what your
[00:59:50] talent stack is and that it's made up of all these crazy kooky seemingly unrelated skills that when
[00:59:57] put together come together to make that mosaic picture that you know you have to be willing
[01:00:03] to take that step back and zoom out to see the whole thing because if you're too busy
[01:00:08] looking at the the little bits and tiles that have gone into making it you'll you'll miss
[01:00:12] the the picture that it really holds when you step back and see it all together it's great I
[01:00:16] I love that that's where you're at with the work because you again I think for me getting into this
[01:00:22] podcast was the realization that there's kind of a term now for this weird approach that I have
[01:00:28] always taken to my own personal development and it's I hear the same here where I'm like I think
[01:00:33] you're out there teaching talent stacks as sort of the basis of their value propositions
[01:00:40] when they go into these employers and now there's a word for it so hopefully you know we'll get this
[01:00:44] thing trending hashtag talent stack and people will start to speak of it that way and employers I
[01:00:49] hope will start to listen for it that way and understand that it's more than just the
[01:00:53] resume on the page it's more than just where you've worked it's about your talent stack
[01:00:57] what can you bring to the party that creates value for me that is more than just where you've
[01:01:01] worked in for how long but that jumping around and hopping around who cares if everywhere I went
[01:01:07] I acquired new and you know interesting skills putting those together creates something entirely
[01:01:13] unique and unique is value that that's the fundamental thesis behind this podcast is
[01:01:20] uniqueness creates value and every talent stack is unique and the more unique you make your
[01:01:25] talent stack the more valuable you become when you find the right place to land it so
[01:01:31] I love it I love that you're still elbows deep in this work because it's it's
[01:01:36] it's my favorite kind of stuff that's so awesome all right I have a I have a pop quiz now I hear
[01:01:41] at the end I'm gonna I did not include this in the pre-work but this this is a brand new idea
[01:01:46] so uh here's here's my my wrap up question you'll be the first guest to try this out
[01:01:52] I want you to in rapid fire list as many skills in your stack as you can think of if you had
[01:01:59] to describe what's in your talent stack just rapid fire quick hits rattle them off for us how
[01:02:07] many you think you could name go okay all right counseling instruction coaching support organization
[01:02:17] predictive analytics data analytics marketing advertising um let's see I say organization um
[01:02:27] oh goodness um wow I did say coach yeah I'm trying to go um oh your technical writing
[01:02:35] uh research um presentation um goodness uh goodness in a social emotional uh learning
[01:02:44] and coaching and development um let's see uh goodness I'm at a loss now from that it probably
[01:02:52] some more may pop in as well you know no that's that's great I'm I have no doubt there are so many
[01:02:59] more but I I love that because again it just shows how many things go into making up you know someone
[01:03:05] so talented and successful and who has found this great little niche that they are excelling in
[01:03:11] is because of all these things that you know again what I would not have thought of technical
[01:03:15] writing um as you know or advertising as ones that I would immediately associate but I
[01:03:21] immediately once I hear you say it I'm like oh I know where that's coming from and and they're important
[01:03:27] you end up relying on those skills whether you realize them or not and so that's again I just
[01:03:32] it's a fun little exercise that I did with myself the other I'm like I wonder how many of these
[01:03:36] I could actually sit down and make um but I'm going to challenge all my guests to do this
[01:03:39] because I think that's part of the fun is to realize how many of these people have that
[01:03:43] they don't even often think of and maybe don't rely on every day but when you need it
[01:03:47] you're going to be glad it's there so very cool I love it good stack nice nice all right well
[01:03:54] Deb I think we're going to wrap it up here because I know we've got a lot more going on and you've
[01:03:59] got people that need counseling and I've got uh people that need training but thank you so much
[01:04:04] for taking the time out to do this this has been such a pleasure I'm always excited to
[01:04:08] catch up with you oh thank you for having me here yes absolutely this is so needed if
[01:04:15] and if I can give a final word you know I think this is a beautiful progression from where
[01:04:20] we've gone in training and professional development when I saw talent stack and I heard
[01:04:25] about your theory with that the first thing came to mind was the whole strengths finder the
[01:04:30] strengths base paradigm that's created by Gallup and I'm thinking this is a beautiful
[01:04:35] progression from that because again it's your your uniqueness your ability to acquire these
[01:04:41] talents and skills they are not something that is a negative it's not a detriment it's nothing
[01:04:47] that should be punitive if anything that should be celebrated and you should be able to realize
[01:04:52] that is again a part of what you bring into the table is how you take up your space and
[01:04:57] and how you create your unique fingerprint in the workforce and that is how we should always
[01:05:03] approach it and again always asking yourself that question what or who do I want to be when
[01:05:08] I grow up because again we are always growing we're evolving we're changing and that is okay you
[01:05:13] have to say hello to that that is very natural so you have to work in alignment with the natural
[01:05:19] things that you know your soul your mind is telling you about yourself I love it I love it
[01:05:25] thank you so much this has been such a pleasure anywhere if people if people want to find you
[01:05:30] if maybe they need career counseling or they know a military spouse that has one I don't
[01:05:34] anything you want to promote any any places you want to point people to connect with you
[01:05:38] yeah absolutely thank you for that I can do that quick plug so for all the military spouses out there
[01:05:45] who are married to active duty service members there's certain ranks that are involved in
[01:05:49] that but there is a free scholarship it is called the my career advancement account scholarship
[01:05:55] where they provide a maximum benefit of four thousand dollars that will pay towards a
[01:05:59] professional certification license or an associate's degree and that is only tuition
[01:06:05] base but if you are married to active duty service member of course there's a certain ranking
[01:06:11] specification that applies please definitely contact your local education board at your base
[01:06:16] or reach out to military one source and you can learn about the my cAA scholarship
[01:06:23] and then to find me you can just send me an email to consulting debora at gmail.com
[01:06:29] I'm always responsive to my email as well excellent and I'll go ahead and we'll have those
[01:06:34] in the show notes for you folks as well so if you're listening and you want to find out more
[01:06:36] info check the show notes and we'll have all that for you there too all right well that's
[01:06:42] going to do it for this episode of talent stacked thank you all for being along for the
[01:06:47] journey and taking a listen thank you deb for being a part of this one and I'll be back with
[01:06:51] another episode soon so we'll see you then